Premature Ventricular Contractions and more

Ran a check and all looks clean.

lbh@...

Thanks ,

Lori

Hi, I am contemplating starting some of the methods of this theory...(to add
to our exsisting therapy..Work in progress) What i need from all of you who
can help is this...What is the differance you have noticed with your
nonverbal kids vs. the hard core Loovas program or Work in Progress ? What
is the defining factor in this therapy? i am going to a training on April
19. What is the success rate other than the obvious success stories they
will tell? JR

HFilipiak@... is virus free.

He asked that I post to inform that he is about 1 week behind in emails.
He has really been pushing himself, and hopes to try and slow down. Give
him some time. He is not ignoring anyone, just spread thin, very thin.
Donelle
"Some men see things as they are and say Why?"
I dream things that never were, and say, Why Not"
RFK
MV FEAT website
http://www.feat.org/MVFeat
MV FEAT email
mvfeat@...

We have a system that checks each time we start the computer. so as far
as I know I'm virus free. Winnie at rrankey@...

Hi everyone,
Vince asked me to post a note to the list for him. He is in the process of
moving to Jacksonville so that he can spend more time at the Jericho
School. He says he is inundated with email and just can't get to it right
now. He will respond when he gets settled in, so if you have sent him an
email recently and haven't heard back, be patient.
He said once he gets settled in he will be setting up a new website to
announce all the upcoming trainings.
Lynda

Hello,
My husband went through our files, etc., and ran the virus stuff we have,
and it looks like everything is clean.
Jennie

Hi
I am new to the list. I have been tutoring a little boy with autism for
about 4 months, using the traditional ABA technique. His mom found out
about DTT-NET quite recently, and has since been telling me all about it,
as she wants to start implenting it as soon as possible. I am particularly
interested in it, as I am working at a deaf pre-school. The aim is to
encourage Sign Language as the children's primary form of communication.
They currently have very little language, and my job as the language
therapist is to encourage communication at every possible moment i.e. in a
naturalistic environement. Thus this method would be ideal- if I understand
it correctly.
I am also doing my masters degree in speech therapy, and am interested in
writing up a seminar paper on this method of intervention, and how it could
be possibly used for other populations, like young deaf signers who may
need language enrichment. Any help in finding out more information,
journals to read or people to contact would be most appreciated.
Thank you
Ann
Cape Town
(patrickj@...)

Hi all,
You develop 5 questions/carrier phrases, but you only teach one at a time.
With David, we develop five carrier phrases for five words, and work on all
five words at one time. So at any time, we are working on 5 new carrier
phrases...one for each of the five words we have targeted.
To another person who asked about whether to prompt in NET when the child
does not know the answer.....yes! You prompt just like you would at the
table. You continue to use errorless learning and effective prompting and
fading just like you do when you are working on drills at the table. You
ask the question, prompt the answer if needed, then re ask the question if
you didn't get a spontaneous response. Then go on to the next thing you
want to do.
Lynda

1. Do most of you teach things within RFFC that are functional to that
child? For example, I know that a birthday cake has frosting on it but
should you teach the more common things first. (food, eat at birthdays)
Being functional is the key, however we may introduce parts that may not seem
as functional as others. I think the fact that a cake has frosting is
something most kids know, however it may not be as obvious as the others. I
think also that sometimes the more unique features are easier to learn b/c
they are not the response for several different things.
2. What if the child names the item instead of giving it to you? (i.e Which
one do you swim in? Child answers pool but does not touch or give pool)
No big deal unless I guess you feel the child really doesn't understand the
difference between touching and telling. When kids are really good at this,
we have totally eliminated the touch part and just ask the question with the
cards out.
3. Also, what about young children doing RFFC? I go to pre-school with one
kid and I was doing RFFC with her peers. They knew very limited things about
the pictures Should we teach the items that other children her age know
instead of 5-7 things that might be above her level?
The key still is being functional, however I would be careful about assuming
things are too far above their level. There always are things that a kid
just doesn't get and that is going to show up in probing or later when you do
maintenance probes. Something that has really helped is talking about the
card/object informally before introducing it in a teaching situation or later
when you realized they are just not getting it. For example, you might go
into the garage and point out all of the features on a bike and talk about
it's function and class.
Steph

Jenn ...
I am not sure wether this will be of any use to you....my son is the KING of
verbal stims, although of course we try what we can to redirect.
my consultant early on told me about the " do your scheduel" drill
in this drill the child is prompted to " learn" and " play" with a toy
appropriatly and independantly.
there is VERBAL prompting , you may only prompt child from behind HOH while
child stands facing table ( the standing part is important )
if the child BEGINS to stim verbally you , from behind pull the child
slightly back from the table , freezing them until they are quiet , when
they are they are prompted to complete task/puzzle/stacking cups etc...
I have learned to try to stop verbal stims is very difficult in a
generalized fashion. Although this may ONLY stop verbal stims while the
drill is going, by teaching if they make noise they can not complete the
toy/game etc...so I would make sure that if you were going to do this drill,
the toys should be desirable as possible, otherwise you could start running
into avoidance with the self stim. The only reinforcement given to the child
( depends where they are in program ) are tangibles from BEHIND or rubbing
the back lightly , indicating good work. This is an indepentant program that
is why there is no talking, however this program I do believe could help
build up the child's NON vocal stim times. hope this helps , but anyone feel
free to email me if you have further questions.
norrah
aba4u@...

Spencer,
Teach your target questions throughout the session mixed in with your other
drills. This is how we do it for each question:
Therapist: Lays out 3 cards and asks, "Point to the one you swim in."
Child: Points to swimming pool.
Therapist: Picks up the cards and asks, "What do you swim in?"
Child: Answers, "Swimming pool."
Therapist: Says, "Something you swim in is a (swimming pool)."
Child: Says, "Swimming pool."
Therapist: Doing a reversal says, "A swimming pool is something (you swim in)
."
By doing the fill-in in addition to the What question, we are strengthening
the tact. Throwing in the reversal transfers it to an intraverbal. You
would do this for each question you are using for a particular target object.
Once he has several RFFCs mastered you will move on to an expressive drill
for FFC.
Steph offered to share a recent post about RFFCs. She is one of our
therapists and is very good. I'm sure she has elaborated better than I on
this, so you may want to email her.
Hope this helps.
Yours,
Mickey

My son, age 8 receives a half-hour a day of individual speech therapy.
The therapist generally provides it in a room separate from the rest of
his school activities. Do you think that it would be better if she followed
him out into his natural school environment--from a DTT-NET perspective?
I have the books that train this method but I have not yet attended a
training
and do not fully understand the techniques.
Amy Near
miker@...
By the way, my computer crashed yesterday and I lost all the files I had
saved re this list. Can someone send me the "Welcome to the list, here's
how you access the archives" posts?

Hi List~
I am beginning to think I have a mental block against teaching RFFC's because
no matter how many questions I seem to ask I still don't get it. LOL. Latest
question is when you teach RFFC's and you develop the 5 or so target
questions, do you teach all 5 target questions simultaneously, side by side?
For example, say you are teaching a child something about a swimming pool, it
has water in it, is where you go swimming, you wear your bathing suit when
you go there, you have to put on sun tan lotion before you go there, are your
questions (bear with me I am making this up off the top of my head). During
1 session would you at different times present the swimming pool flashcard
and ask each of these questions (of course mixing it in with other tasks) or
would you present the same card asking the same question about that card
until the first question was answered at mastery level and then go on to
asking a second question about that card and so on. There wasn't enough
video shown at the conference about this "drill" for me to be sure exactly
how it would be presented throughout a session.
Thanks,
Spencer

OK, I am new to this computer world. My McAfee virus scan (recently updated)
has not picked up any virus. I receive my emails as posts and have not
downloaded any attachments from any emails. As long as I don't download any
attachments am I, OK?
Thanks, feel free to email me privately so as not to clog up the list since
this is off topic.
Spencer,
Heineylime@...

Dear Kelly, the key thing is making therapy fun. I know that it can be very
frustrating to try and teach something and feel like you are banging your
head against the wall. Considering you have min mands and imitations at
this time... I would suggest that you continue working on those areas. Do
not try to move on. (Dr. Carbone talked about doing verbal im drills
10,000s of times before a child responded, but once he responded, they were
able to move along quicker.) We have had to start at square one with
Zachary too... especially since starting to use Dr. Carbone's teachings. I
had thought we were so much further along....and it was very frustrating to
put all that on hold and just work on imitations (looking for 90%
independently).
You may want to get 2 clickers. 1 will be for keeping track of the number
of sd's given in a day (this is to make sure that you are doing enough or
exposing the child enough to learning opportunities) 2 will be for
spontaneous responses. This will give you the opportunity to see the
progress your child is making over time.
On a piece of paper you can record these numbers daily (or hourly) and start
over again with 0 each hour on the clicker (they do this at Zach's school
but I do a total number at home). The key is that you are contriving enough
opportunities allowing the child lots of practice.
It does not matter what the sds are ... do not bother recording those. You
will want to focus on errorless teaching, so make sure you are doing things
that can be fully physically prompted.... therefore imitations would be a
good start and do not do any expressive things or things you can not
physically prompt. You may spend 90% of your day prompting the answer but
that is ok because it is allowing the child to be successful throughout his
day.
Reinforcement: you want to make sure that the child is getting reinforced
for his work.... no matter if it is fully prompted or independent responses.
You will want to gather his favorite reinforcers (for Zach it is: a bean bag
chair, his favorite blanket, pillows, favorite video tapes/music, books,
food, drink)
Do about 5-10 sds' then reinforce (ask what do you want? if you are not
getting an independent response, prompt it. Show the item or say the items
name for your child.) Know what the child's level of responding is and let
him have reinforcer at that level... do not expect a response (in asking for
reinforcer) greater then your child's ability to respond. That can be very
frustrating to the child... and that is not good when paired with a
reinforcer.)
Zachary was assigned one teacher at school. That one teacher would do this
with him his entire 6 hours at school. They would average about 1200 sd's
during that time. So this can be very time consuming. (At home, needless
to say I was/am unable to do that ... considering there are other demands on
my time... his sister, cooking dinner, cleaning, etc.). So basically any
time I walked past Zach or he came to me pulling me I would do a trial or
two (my goal was 1-2 minutes of work each time... then he got to go play and
became reinforced.)
I hope this helps and please write me back... I am sure you will have
questions. love, Rhonda

My daughter Gentry has very little echoic, abhors pecs
(not so bad according to Dr. Carbone), and does pretty
good with signing.
We have some problems with signs involving the use of
both hands though because she always carries little
items in her hands. They are like security objects to
her (even though just a plastic letter or even a
rock!). For the last 8 months she has been putting
them into her mouth too.
Any creative ideas for us. We've tried massaging her
mouth areas and using an oral B vibrating touthbrush
to "desensitize" her mouth area all with limited
success.
Thanks for any ideas!
Amy
=====
Amy Gudal

It looks like the KAK worm virus has just arrived on DTT-NET. This has
just been discussed at length on the ABA-UK list.
My ancient e-mail software which (I hope) won't run or attach e-mail
viruses showed that some 'script' in an e-mail sent last night (30/3/00
20:39) which clearly was the KAK virus. This also had a picture file
attached ("CPBTOOLSWINTEMPnsmailGC.gif") which was not mentioned by the
sender. (I have not tried to look at this picture!)
Since that e-mail, I see 3 messages from other members of DTT-NET reporting
a possible Virus. It is possible no-one else can see what I see (ie., the
raw script) because everyone else is using more up to date software which
takes the script and runs it (or detects it - it is ActiveX related).
I am not a Virus expert so if anyone else knows more, please let everyone
else know.
I have not resent the script in case it reactivates itself in more modern
software. Below is a message sent to ABA-UK by Cindy, the list moderator
which may help.

OK -- I did a thorough archive search an have found even more great
information and answers to the questions I posted. I did not see
this one (but definatly could have missed it) What is the general
consenses on using "say" with the prompting? I have found that it is
fairly easy to not use "say" for one/two word responses, but if ask
in sentence form or I want Verity to respond with sentence ...How
too? ex. Guess what I bought at the grocery store? I want her to
say "what"? (previously learned from a simple "Guess what" statement)
I had to prompt "say...What" because it sounded funny not to and we
were in the car so that leaves out some kind of visual cue. It was
sooo perfect because I bought many of her favorite items - while she
was at OT and was able to continue with "Guess what else I bought at
the Grocery Store." Will she adjust to what I am doing and then I
will be able to drop the "say"?? By the way, I kept her home from
school today and worked on lots of NET. It was very interesting to
see how she has a difficult time with switching topics. Did I do
this right? ex. She had a butterfly and said it flies, then drifted
to penquin doesn't fly. I picked up there with -- "right, a penguin
_____. (p=waddles) and a kangaroo ____(p) and a snake ____.(p) Please
tell me that I did it right??? I think/hope that I am getting this
technique now.

I am having a virus alert come up every time I receive a message in response
to What have you learned lately. For the last day and a half since the
original post with that title has come in , all of the RE's to that response
have caused my antivirus software to sound and alert and the virus. Am I the
only one having this problem?
Lynne Davis

1. I've learned that when you think you've plateaued and cannot possibly
progress any further, you have to rethink the situation, regroup, toss out
and start over.
2. D.T. should never ever be stale and unchanging.
3. And lastly that there is no one RIGHT way to teach anything. Whatever
you have to implement to reach your child then that's the right way. Use
the framework of d.t. but never stop expanding the scope of what d.t. can
teach and always always push the envelope. What we learn today will make it
so much better for future d.t. generations.
Cate - grateful for the insight and ongoing spirit of my fellow d.t.'ers!!

Vicky,
I don't know if this is uniform, but a local #2 workshop in Ohio is
$795, not including the required manual.(This does not include hotel or
other expenses). Just to give you an idea. SallyB
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT
DT

Parents who have attended workshop#1,
I am starting to coordinate #2. It looks like we may have enough
families for two workshops. That would make it possible to split up into a
Milwaukee/Chicago Area and Madison groups. Or maybe it would make more sense
to group by case age or some other factor.
It seems that Vince Carbone left our local ABA providers clamoring for
further training themselves. Maybe it will be possible to also coordinate
with providers.
If you put your name and contact info on the list on my clipboard at the
Madison Workshop, you do not need to email me now. If you didn't, but would
be interested in attending Workshop #2 in the Madison or Milwaukee area,
please email me offlist to NancyOMara@...
Give me you child's name and age,and your name, snail and email addresses
and your preference (if any) between Madison and Milwaukee area locations.
If you need more info about Workshop #2, go to
www.behaviorchange.com
This is the parent workshop that is limited to 12 cases per workshop.
Nancy

I learned that I am not as smart as I think I am and my son is much smarter
than I thought he was!!!! For example, my son is capable of learning many
targets at once, they don't have to all be taught in isolation then run
through an expanded trial (duh!!! guess it never occurred to me to wonder
where he learned words that were never on my Lovaas acquisition or mastered
list!!) I learned that therapy really can be fun, not just in theory, and if
I am bored then I must not be getting reinforced (i.e., my son keeps crying
and running away instead of learning)! And I need to pair myself more with
reinforcement (have more fun)! Some of our new teaching techniques are fun!
Who doesn't feel like they are doing a pretty good job when your kid takes
one look at you with a shoe on your head bursts out in laughter and can
barely gasp out "why," after only doing trials of "why?" since the workshop
last Fri and Sat!!!
Spencer

hi there,
three things that i have learned:
1) rhonda miga is a saint, and deserves a round of applause for all she has done
for this list,
2) when i attended ws#1 in october, i could not imagine my son manding even 10
times a day, let alone 1000's (he asked for very very little, and was not
vocal). we started with manding and echoics, and now, six months later, we are
working on rffc and intraverbals. what seemed impossible then, now is old hat.
don't let the enormity of it all overwhelm you; pull out your trusty aba and
break things down into smaller parts.
3) in order to pull all this off you have to be very creative, even sneaky. for
example, i've been working on intraverbals with my son. a few weeks ago, he
would talk with us about colors, but recently he stopped. it just so happens
that he is really into play-doh right now, so i can talk about play-doh with
him, and sneak in colors, shapes, etc. this is not how any of us would normally
think, but now it is a way of life.
--aaron

Does anyone know if these trainings for professionals are workshop-based? Or
are they more extensive trainings?
Stacie

Dear listers,

OK, it is test time..... :)

Many of you have attended conferences lately or have had a consultation in your home or at your school. And considering we have members who are new to the world of autism, errorless teaching, Applied Verbal Behavior, and doing Discrete Trial Teaching in this manner.... therefore, ....

I would like to know.... what have you learned lately?

So.... 1) post one thing you learned from the latest workshop or conference you attended. and 2) Tell us know how you are implementing what you learned with your child or the children you work with.

Thanks for taking the time to learn something new.... and taking the time to share it with us.

Rhonda, list-owner

Jenny,
On your question about Isaac and the horses........I would start with big
things.....hay, saddle, horse, barn, etc. When Vince was here the last
time, he cautioned us about beginning to work on more minute, for a better
word, attributes.......like stripes, tail, etc......we were talking about
pointing out things in books. So start with the big things and then work
your way down.
Rachel.......in addition to what everyone else has said, begin to work on
these words in echoics.....that is a good way to work on articulation. We
always have a list of 50-70 words that we are working on the pronunciation
of. Somewhere during each sitting, or also during NET time, we reel off
5-10 of these words, one at a time, and have David repeat them. If he says
the word correctly, we go to the next word. If he does not, we have him
repeat it 2-3 times before going on to the next word. Vince has instructed
us that we should say the word exactly as we say it in real life....do not
draw it out, do not overemphasize a particular part.....otherwise, they
will learn to overemphasize too, and then you will have to unteach that.
Lynda

Hi list~
I have had 2 parents who came to the workshop we hosted in NC with
Carbone/McGreevy email me and say that their therapists are not willing to
change their teaching style. Their main concern is that they think the kids
will become prompt dependent and that their is no research to support this.
So..any ideas?? I do not want to overwhelmed them with issues of JABA. I am
at a lost for words here b.c all the therapists I work with were so excited
about this method and were very willing to change!
Jenn

Hi,
I don't know about Cincinnati, but workshop #2 is going to go on in the
Dayton area soon, if you are interested, email me for contact info-there
are only one or two slots open.Sally
--eeyore@...
DT

Dr. Mc Greevy,
Do you have any information yet on the date and location of the workshop you
will be doing in the NJ/NY area in May, as previously mentioned? I am on
the DTT-NET (Discrete Trial-Natural Environment Training) List on the
internet and have heard and continue to hear nothing but rave reviews on the
workshops both you and Dr. Carbone are doing on stategies and techniques used
in Teaching Children with Autism communication skills. I look forward to
attending your program in this area. Please keep me posted. Thank you
sincerely.
Maria
New Jersey
ReRe759@...

Does anybody in the Cincinatti area know if a Carbone/McGreevy workshop #2 being planned in the near future. Please post or e-mail me any info if there is any. I am slowly starting a program but I need more help.Thanks Lisa mother of Lezetta autistic with big beautiful brown eyes and Wesley NT with a big vocabulary

<< <<
Maria--
I apologize for the delay in responding. We will be conducting a workshop
in
NY in May-- keep an eye on our website
P. Mcgreevy
Listmates,
I have been in contact with both Drs. Carbone and McGreevy with reference to
bringing their workshops to the New Jersey area. Keep your eyes open for
further details.
Maria

PART 2

(NOTE: the following is a continuation of the notes I took at the Solutions workshop in January. These notes are strictly from my notetaking and not transcribed from a tape recording of the workshop. I have about 30 pages of notes and this only covers up to page 8. It will take me some time to post them all to the list. I highly recommend both parents and professionals to attend one or many of the workshops offered by Dr. Partington's group in California.)

WHAT DOES LANGUAGE MEAN???

What does language mean to you? Manipulating the world around you, understanding, communicating. Language is thousands of things, not just speaking verbally. Language is how we operate as a human being. We survive in this world using language. We need to construct a language environment within our teaching environment. (Note: language is more then verbally speaking.)

TEACHING IN A LANGUAGE BASED ENVIRONMENT:

Language training should be central to the intervention we are providing to our children. This is our focus that everything the child learns is going to be through language.

Language training trails need to occur throughout the day. This does not mean that a child has to be sitting at a table all day. There are a million things we have to do everyday that provide many opportunities to teach language. (thus, natural environment teaching)

Everyone involved is trained to teach language effectively and consistently. This does not mean that everyone in the community needs to come to a workshop. It means that you need to give everyone a goal to work on with the child. If you are working on greetings, everyone needs to know that and help. Everyone needs to be on the same page. Provide information to the people (grandparents, neighbors, teachers, the cashier at the grocery store) around you. (Rhonda's personal note: we were working on Zachary answering safety questions, so we visited the post office, the bank, the police booth at the mall. We had everyone in our community asking him ... what's your name? Address? Parents names? Telephone number? Etc.)

All the different language areas are taught. When we break language down into functional skills areas we need to make sure that each of those areas are taught. It is not necessarily the number of trials that is critical but it is rather the type of trial. If you are teaching labels through flash cards thousands of times a day but you are not teaching the other avenues, you are not going to get functional language. Hopefully, this will enrich your entire teaching experience. Some kids may learn words fast through flash cards but are they using those words functionally.

One of the down falls of DTT (discrete trial teaching) is that it does not generalize. When you break down what you are doing it is not necessarily that DTT does not work, it is having a broad functional program that is needed. That is what a language based program is.

TRAINING IN TERMS OF TRAINING SKILLS. What are some things that trainers / parents need to know? (see pg 5: Tips--in solutions workshop workbook).

SHAPING is a behavioral technical term. When you shape behavior you take whatever is existing right now and you slowly, through reinforcement, shape it to move forward and change behavior so the child moves forward. If you can transmit these ideas to the people who are with your child daily, they will be helpful in teaching your child.

SUCCESS BREEDS SUCCESS. Keep the child successful. The child will want to work for you if they are successful. If you went to work everyday and failed everyday, you would either stop going to your job or you would avoid tasks at work because you are not successful. Kids check out and take coffee breaks to avoid failing. 80% success is what we look for. 80% of the time you want to give you child things to do that they are successful. That other 20% of the time you are teaching and prompting. You have to have the motivation built in so that your child will continue to learn. Focus on what the child is learning and work at a level where the child is successful. This enables you to keep your level of reinforcement high.

MOTIVATE and REINFORCE. Keeps these two things tied together for success.

CAPITALIZE ON TEACHABLE MOMENTS. Ways you can `see' teaching opportunities everyday. You may need to abandon your agenda. You do not want to be stuck on exactly what is scheduled. When your child says something you want to be able to switch and focus on that. Feed your instructions into those topics that interest your child. (If a child sees a dog and says "dog", you need to forget that your goal for this teaching session was cats and redirect your efforts to the dog because the dog is what your child is interested in. Think of all the things you can teach about the dog: features, functions, class, etc.)

YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR CHILD'S ATTENTION. You can not teach without having attention. In order to teach you need to have attention, to keep a child successful you will have to have them attending. If you follow your child's lead and go with what your child is interested in you most likely will have the motivation to teach.

Make sure your child knows there is a reinforcer is available. Set up a history so that the child knows when he/she is working with a person, they will be reinforced. Make sure there is a strong motivation for the reinforcer. (this is where the therapist / teacher becoming reinforcing is important.)

**************************

You want to expose the child to language. You want to use language naturally.

LANGUAGE CLASSIFICATION. BF Skinners Language Analysis 1957 is a very helpful and common sense approach to teaching language. It is easy to incorporate and you can easily see each of these occurring in your everyday life.

MAND: a request for what you want or what you want stopped, etc. Comes from the word "demand" or "command." A request for anything. With the breakdown of specific language functions, the form is not important, what is important is the function. To get what you want or to stop something you do not want. Tantrums can be a mand, pulling you to something is a mand. If a child physically gets something herself, it is not a mand. It is only considered language if it goes through someone else. We want to shape this to more effective behaviors.

IMITATION: to imitate the motor actions of others. Without imitation we would not be able to learn many things in life. It is important to observe and imitate others to have good social skills. At the most basic level it is teaching basic gross motor imitations to more advanced... to watch your peers. We want to teach "if the words are too confusing, watch what others are doing to get it right."

ECHOICS: echo what someone else says. You use it to learn to pronounce peoples names and say words you do not know. This may be simple sounds or complex words or sentences. Say "aaah" or "I like to play with dolls." Repeating strings of numbers to remember phone numbers.

RECEPTIVE SKILLS: following instructions, identifying things non-verbally, doing what others tell you to do. It requires attention but does not require you to respond verbally. Listen to instruction and do it. Simple instruction like touch cup, all the way to something more complex like pointing to a skeleton and picking out one of the many hundreds of bones.

TACT: this language contacts the environment. Used to describe the world around us, comes to us through our senses. Use all your senses. Hear the rain, feel the cold, see the bird, taste the orange, feel the soft fur of a cat. The function of a tact is not to "get something" it is simply to "describe something." Signing water because I see it is different then signing it because I want it.

RFFC: sub category of receptive skills. Being able to non-verbally name something by it's feature, function, or class. Responding to the request from something other then the name of the item. "Get me something to drink." And the child gets you water vs. you telling the child to "go get a cup of water."

INTRAVERBAL: verbal to verbal relationships. My verbal comment or instruction is responded to with another verbal comment or instruction. Going back and forth about many different topics that is triggered by what a person says. Being able to respond verbally without any physical items present. Simple greetings to more complex... taking about the weather. These can be automatic responses. If I say "hi", you say "hi" back. If I say "how are you?", you say "fine." Songs are a wonderful place to start with for this. Most Intraverbals are quite complex and require you to make multiple responses without visual queues.

TEXTURAL: reading WRITING: writing down

For most children, you are not going to teach reading and writing first for your child. If your child does read, use that as a motivational prompt to teach other aspects of language. Use it if they like it.

WHAT TO TARGET FIRST: mands, imitation, echoics. Once they have some mands, move to tacts, when they have around 100 tacts(100 is a general number. It is not set in stone. Each child learns differently, thus the need for consultations and evaluations), move to RFFCs, and then move into Intraverbals. This is really general guidelines. You need to have some basic learning skills before you can teach other skills but it is not in stone. Follow how a typical child learns. If it is not typical.... don't try to jump and make your child do it.

The thing that is important to remember is that you can use all of these language "functions" for every word you are teaching a child. Example: CAT

MAND: I want a cat for Christmas.

IMITATION: sign for cat, act like a cat.

ECHOICS: say "cat"

RECEPTIVE: touch the cat, give me the cat. Find the cat, pet the cat, point to ....

TACT: look, a cat. Or make a sign when you see a cat.

RFFC: response needs to be receptive... put some stuffed toys on the floor. Which one is an animal? Which one says meow? What has 4 legs and a tail? As a variety of questions without saying the word "cat." (vocabulary note: RFFC with a verbal answer and not receptively, is "RFFC with a TACT," not "FFC." If the child is giving a vocal or verbal response will be either a "tact" if the cat is there or an "intraverbal" if the cat is not there.

INTRAVERBAL: Tell me about a cat. Name something you find at a pet store. You will use RFFC skills to increase your intraverbal skills. If you do not know the function of a bed, "name something you sleep in," will be a ROTE answer. The stronger your RFFCs are the less rote your answers will be.

You want to have the ability to teach every word, but you want to teach the skill to learn from their environment.

VERBAL vs. VOCAL: Verbal is how you express yourself to another individual. Vocal is your voice.

Monthly Dr. Partington gave a specific area or target to work on. The family had to take that information and incorporate it into their everyday life. Dissect it (if you may) and figure out all the ways you could work on that specific target.

Hi,
I am new to the list, and I am trying to help a friend find a speech
therapist using Carbone/Sundberg/Partington type methods in the central
Ohio area-does anyone have a reference for one, or is there such a
person on this list? Thanks, Sally
you can write me off list at eeyore@...

In a message dated 3/26/00 3:53:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
DTT-NET@onelist.com writes:
<< I'm going to go to the
McGreevy conference/workshop when it comes to the NY/NJ area in May
Can you tell me where this workshop is? I live in NJ.
Thanks,
MIchele

Can someone summarize this method for me in a way that I could use to tell my
son's school about. I have a basic understanding of it and I would like to
get the school interested in using this method. I'm going to go to the
McGreevy conference/workshop when it comes to the NY/NJ area in May, but I
have a meeting with my son's school this Wednesday to review his programs.
They cut back on his speech therapy although he is no where near speaking at
his age level (age 6) and is very hard to understand, speaks mostly in three
word sentence "I want ...". I'm thinking I may be able to get school to use
this method with my son to help with his speech along with discrete trial
teaching.
Thanks for any help
Mary

Hi,
I never got around to posting about the Sundberg workshop at the BAAM
(Behavior Analysis Assoc of Michigan) conference a couple of weeks ago - just
wanted to say that Mark Sundberg was really excellent! Even though I had gone
to a Dr. Carbone/McGreevy workshop in January, it really helped to hear the
material from Sundberg & Partington again, especially straight from one of the
authors. He explained things so well, it was quite helpful.
So I would highly recommend going to see Sundberg and or Partington as well as
Carbone/McGreevy if you get the opportunity. FYI, Mark Sundberg is also doing
a two-day workshop in Kalamazoo, MI in the fall. I believe the dates are
September 28 & 29th. I will post more info when I get it.
Barb

My son who is 3.8 y.o. has been doing traditional ABA since last June
and now S/P for the last seven weeks. He is in therapy with me from
8:30-11:30, TEACCH program from 12-3p, then he comes home and we do
therapy with a tutor from 4:30-6:30pm and then sometimes I do another
hour after that. Our problem is he has always been a "power napper". I
don't want him to nap anymore because he's proven if he does he'll stay
up till midnight. He's pretty low functioning although his echoic and
imitation are pretty good and receptive is starting to come along but
all of our program is very basic. My long way around the fence here is
regarding number of hours and quality of hours. I just started two days
ago doing more of a "fun/floortime/NET" approach during the 4:30-6:30
time with the tutors. He's always very whinny during that time because
he's so tired and would LOVE to sleep. In some ways I feel like I'm
wasting valuable tutor time and money however I don't know how
productive he is anyhow during that time. He's lucky now to get 30
hours of therapy in addition to his school time. The school is
supplementing what I'm doing at home. They have his program and throw
it in throughout his three hours there. I'm just concerned that this
may not be enough hours but I don't know where to get more and I
certainly don't have anymore money...that left a long time ago. So I'm
just trying to get advice from you "experts" out there. Is this the
right path to take with a child who still so desperately needs a nap but
cannot have one anymore? I really don't want him up being rowdy till
midnight. I could use some suggestions.
Thanks for your help.
Penny

In a message dated 3/21/00 11:05:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, tcaff1@...
writes:
<<
Now available on videotape, Dr. Temple Grandin
The New Jersey-based non-profit parent autism advocacy group, Parents of
Autistic Children (POAC), is proud to offer for sale a videotape of Dr.
Temple Grandin's presentation recorded live at the recent Autism 2000
conference. This two-hour video offers a unique and inspirational
presentation covering early intervention, sensory issues (including auditory
and visual thinking), medications, and some of the many interventions that
are available to families today. Dr. Grandin's slide presentation adds a
wonderful prospective to her humorous, yet informational lecture.
The tapes are available for $29.95, which includes shipping and handling. To
purchase, please send your name, address, e-mail address, phone number, and a
check payable to POAC, to: Lori Mooney, 120 Fairway Drive, Brick, NJ 08724.
Your tape will be mailed when payment is received.
Would you please forward this email to friends, support groups and
professionals that may be interested in a video of this nature.

Fellow One-List Subscribers,
I hope this will not be deemed "off-topic", but I am looking for therapists
to work in Houston, TX (in the Memorial Area). I will supply details to
those interested. Training will be provided. Please email me privately if
interested or if you know of someone who might be.
Thank you,
Misty
m_dimitroff@...

I was hoping someone could give me some direction as to information and
research on the S/P method that I could present to our school district.
They are having their budget meeting for next year in less than two
weeks. My son's teacher is enthusiastic about it but we don't know how
to present the strength and credibility to the school. My son has not
been doing it long enough for any video tape to be significant enough.
We need a way to show the district that it is possible to do this method
without spending alot of extra money. I could really use your help
here.
Also I was wondering if anyone had good information for the press
regarding National Autism Awareness Month. I have the press release for
the rally but I thought that didn't convey enough about autism. I have
an interview scheduled with our local paper next week and one of the
local TV stations might do a brief piece. It's not that I'm too lazy to
do it myself...ok I am. Just like the rest of you I have a TON of
things going on right now. I know someone out there will be good at
this sort of thing.
Thanks, thanks, thanks.
Penny

This may not be appropriate for this list but does anyone ever have the feeling that we spend so much time teaching how our consultants/teachers how to teach our children especially at those points in the program where bridges are needed ie. creative ideas to make sure the skill sticks?

no name

Just a comment about functional mastery......to have a child involved doing something in order to learn it is just plain good teaching. Most people have heard the concept that we learn more by doing than by just listening. Actually seeing and touching an object will help a child remember it a lot better than just seeing a 2D picture of it...same thing with actions, functions of objects ...everything. I think some kids do make the transfer anyway, but you wouldn't want to count on that. This is just a personal opinion, but sometimes I think we get so wrapped up in the number of things......it would be better in other words to master fewer things, but REALLY know them and be able to use them.

Truly

We have seen from the Me-List that Parents and Therapists would like to meet at
the McGreevy/Carbone Workshop in Greensboro, NC. Many of you know each other
from various postings on the Me-List, DTT-Net List, and by other means. Some of
you are interested in sharing lodging for the workshop. We at the Triad ABA
Parent Support Group (the Sponsor's of the workshop) would like to help you to
come in contact with each other prior to visiting with us.
To help you contact others attending the Workshop, we have added a Visitor's
Lobby to our website http://triadaba.webjump.com. Go to the "Events" page where
you will find a link to the page that gives information about the Workshop. The
link to the Visitor's lobby is on the Workshop page.
We are excited to have you visiting our area and we look forward to meeting you!
The webmasters of the Triad ABA Parent Support Group

My 3.8 y.o. son has been doing traditional ABA since last June. We have
been doing S/P for about 5-6 weeks. He is very slow on most things but
is getting better. His receptive language is still pretty weak. His
echoic is good and his matching is excellent along with his imitation
skills. I do three hours of DTT in the morning from 8:30-11:30 and he
goes to a TEACCH program from 12-3p. They are implementing the skills
he does at home whenever they can. They have posted what we're working
on in his classroom. Then he comes home after school and does more DTT
from 4:30-7:30. He averages 30-34 hours per week. Here's my problem.
He gets extremely tired around 4 til about 5 or 5:30. I could let him
nap and cut out those two hours that he works with the tutors and then
work with him the last hour. He gets really fussy from the 4:30-5:30
time slot. Do you think he'll eventually get use to no nap and the time
will be productive or does he still need that nap? He gets 10-11 hours
of sleep per night. If I cut out those two hours that means he loses 10
hours per week and only has me as a tutor. I would really appreciate
the experts thoughts on this.
Thanks
Penny

Is there a workbook to go along with "Teaching Language to Children with Autism
or Other
Disabilities"? It doesn't seem like you can get the drills from this manual.

Does anyone know the websight for obtaining pictures of signs? It seems like
I've heard of one that actually shows someone making the movements for the
sign. Thanks in advance. Pam

Can anyone point to a reference for this program? Do not know what it is?
Thank you.
Allen

I just joined this list, because I am interested
in finding out about this approach to ABA. Although I
have read the Sundberg book, I still feel that I know
very little about this approach. I am wondering if
this works for totally non-verbal kids. We are using
PECS with great success with my son, and sign is
really not an option as his fine motor skills are
very poor. (We spent a month trying to teach him to
raise two fingers--without success). I have
incorporated a few things from the Sundberg book into
our program, but I would like to know more. Does
anyone else have experience using this approach with
nonverbal kids using PECS?
Linda

I recently attended the first in a series of workshops across the
country conducted by Drs. McGreevey and Carbone for a small group of
parent and therapist teams. It was the next step after their
introductory 2 day workshop. It was well worth the fee. It addressed
advanced manding, administrative management, how to form objectives from
the ABLLS, tracking data, and also gave us many more skills for trusting
our knowledge base. They apparently plan to give several more of this
nature and offered wonderful solutions and "formulas" for knowing when
to move and how to make use of the REAL natural environment.
There's your E O .
Laura Dyson

Hi, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who wrote with helpful
information on my question about non contingent reinforcement. I
appreciate the help:) It is so nice to have a place to ask questions and
get such quick replies. Thanks again! Kristopher

I'm sorry my post got put up again, actually I wanted to post that this is
our 2nd round of training. Last June we started a 3 day party in the
bathroom-slowly it progressed to the point that we had few accidents-but we
still had to take him-he never initiated on his own-he started saying potty
to get out of drills and he also would have accidents on purpose(he'd laugh)
It has become so bad that he's had accidents at school (9 last week) We
believe that he can control his bladder and needed to revamp this situation.
We never reinforced him for having dry pants, we never made him clean up
after-and we certainly don't want him to "run the show". He will tell me he
has to go if we're in a restaraunt, out of curiousity more than anything. He
just won't initiate any other time-I think the book procedure is odd
also-but there is overcorrection- and double reinforcement(going potty and
dry pants) Any other thoughts would be appreciated. Yvonne
P.S. I didn't mean to post the same thing again.

Dear Rhonda-
Thanks for taking care of the computer virus thing so promptly. I am
trying to unlock the mysteries of autism and would fret if I had
additional mysteries in my life source (my computer) to try to unlock.
Thanks for keeping the ONElist clean and healthy!
love,
Laura

I posted a few weeks ago on potty training and since got the book by Foxx. I
just wanted to make sure we're doing this correctly, as the book I have is
very old. At the top and bottem of the hour we take child to the toilet to
eliminate.Every 5mins he gets a reinforcer for "dry pants" . If he has wet
pants he spends this time going to bathroom,pants down/pants up back to
chair, back to toilet over and over until it was time for him to eliminate
again-this he does in his wet pants. When its time for him to eliminate
again the whole process starts over. We do this until he self initiates
going to the bathroom. After he self initiates, we start increasing the
time? Is this how other people have done it? This may be outdated and if
we're doing it wrong I need to know. Thanks. Yvonne

Trusting soul that I am, I just tried to open the paper clip to the last
digest post & access was denied because of a virus. Is that why there was a
paper clip instead of the usual
complete digest? (I'm not computer savvy).
Marilee

Dear Listers,
Someone asked about toilet training books. I would imagine that Carbone
was referring to Foxx & Azrin's "Toilet Training in One-Day"...or three
days if your child has special needs. They pretty much are the ongoing
experts on toilet training, with some variations created by others,
including "positive practice" involving 5 practice trips to the toilet
following each accident. I recall Nina Lovaas giving us a handout of a
protocol that UCLA follows that basically followed the Foxx & Azrin
method. The recommended methods I've seen all are similar in requiring
intensive time in the restroom, offering salty foods and forcing fluids
so the child has lots of opportunities to go and be rewarded.
Hope this helps.
Lisa

Teaching Communication Skills to Persons with Autism and Other Related
Disabilities, Tallahassee, FL April 18, 19, 2000, Doubletree Hotel
Presented by Vincent Carbeone, Ed.D. An intensive 2 day "how to" training
workshop.
This workshop is designed for parents, teachers, speech therapists, and others
who provide care and instructions for persons with limited communication skills.
The workshop will present an effective method using the behavior approach for
teaching functional language and communication skills. This approach is based
on Skinner's analysis and the extensive research of Drs. Michael, Sundberg,
Partington, and others.
Participants will learn (1) to conduct a Language Assessment,
(2) to select the most appropriate form of communication (vocal, signing,
pointing, PECs, or activating an augmentative device),
(3) to select the communication responses and supporting skills that should be
taught first,
(4) to use specific quick transfer procedures,
(5) to use discrete training trial and natural environmental teaching in an
effective manner,
(6) to teach first communication responses in a short period of time,
(7) to develop a plan to teach a spontaneous communication repertoire, and
(8) to teach your child to participate in conversations.
For a brochure, contact The Jericho School for Children with Autism, PO Box
19798, Jacksonville, FL 32245 or call (904) 744-5110 for more information. May
mail check or money order directly to the Jericho School for registration.
Cost: Early Registration $180.00.
On-site: $195.00
Husband-wife team: $300.00 (early registration only)
Teachers and groups of 10 or more may call Jericho School for information
regarding registration for discount.
Proceeds Benefit The Jericho School for Children with Autism.

Hi all,
Re: attaching whiteboard to the wall:
The guy at Home Depot sold me an aluminum little ledge (8 ft long by about
1") which was very easy to attach to the wall with screws, then I rested the
board on that and only had to nail the upper corners and sides to the wall,
the weight is actually supported by the ledge-thingy. It was right there by
the tileboard so probably is used for this purpose. Hope this helps, it
helped me alot!
Julie

Hi list~
Just wanted to know something. Has anyone had a therapist that no matter
what they never became reinforcing to the child? Any ideas on how to work
around that?
Jenn

Several of my posts recently have ended up in cyberspace, but here I go
again. We are experiencing the same problem as Rhonda described, my son has
"stim phrases" he repeats to people and loves if we repeat and/or expand on
them. To encourage his social intent, which for us is so important (and a
relative recent breakthrough), if, for example, he comes up to us and says
"the fish are crying" , we might say "oh dear, the fish are crying, but
look, I'm drinking coffee" and point to his milk to have him say "I'm
drinking milk". Just yesterday, we were successful in him approaching my
husband and myself and saying, unprompted "I love you" and laughing - it is
the first step, but not appropriate for therapists and others. He has
different "stim phrases" for different people and sticks to them. Through
statement, statement drills we are hoping to replace these stims. For us,
this stage in his development is as exciting as when he first started verbal
imitation. Similarly, we are now accepting the "stim phrases" which
accompany social interaction and are trying to gradually shape them into
something more appropriate. I, too, would love to hear more ideas on this
topic.
Suzanne

Has anyone started the "Verbal Behavior/Skinner" model of ABA/DTT fresh,
either with a child who was truly beginning or a child who is in the more
intermediate stages of programming in many aspects, although some are
earlier level programs, but went back to the beginnings? I guess I am
wondering what the HECK is happening to Isaac and his acquistion rates,
attending, interest/curiousity or even compliance. As always he is mostly a
passive noncompliant type, or a moody, dramatic type without the aggression
or self injurious behaviors some kids demonstrate to avoid work or to
communicate. He whines, slumps, and the most famous, which is nearly
impossible to prompt, SHUTS HIS EYES and sits there immobile. How do I
possibly get him to attend without making him open his eyes, (next to
impossible) and then of course, prompting is nearly impossible. (wry smile)
I mean after all our fingers would be propping his eyes open, correct?
Has anyone gone back to the very beginning, the one I barely recall it was
so many years ago, which means we are both burned out, one of the reasons
this appealed to me. It seems more kid friendly, and flexible, although
there are definitely guidelines and rules, etc. However, Isaac has decided
to ignore them all. You present something, he just guesses, or he points to
the one I am almost positive he knows is NOT correct, or he starts to make
a crying sound and slumps as if he is going to escape under the table. This
was NOT how he acted in the early fall, but he also had some two good
therapists, and one who really worked hard at moving him from one activity
to another and whose natural pace is very fast. Anyhow, Isaac is barely
matching identical pictures today and now, I hear him makign crying sounds
because of a puzzle, and I just don't get know what to do. I can not show
them what to do, because he refused to work with me, and I suggested some
simple tasks, and I asked how he was, and the therapist said, Well, better
than when you asked him to do RFFC, mostly R parts, but lots of prompting,
and he paid little attention and acted miserable. I am not even sure how to
go back to the beginning, because we did it differently, and this is not
the same method and I am worried everyone would get discouraged,
overwhelmed, and there are too many hours during his school day, to figure
out what to do with the rest of them. ACK.
Jennie

How much of the program do you do at one sitting?
Do you know what SRA program you will do next? Susan

Jenn and others,
We are doing Language for Learning now. I think it is very good. (Our son
is six and quite verbal.)
Truly:)

As an alternative to Whiteboards, I've just typed up information on the
computer and printed it out on 8 1/2 x 11 sheets.
My handwritting is poor and the typed reports are much easier to read. I
have the following sheets taped to the walls
1. Current program goals that don't have flash cards
2. Songs to Sing and Reinforcement Ideas
3. Success Trials and therapy tips
4. Language to encourage
Request Comment Respond
You do I'm done My Toy
Give Me Uh oh I don't know
Help Me Fall down My Turn
Put away I did it No do
Lets play No want
Get it Thank You
I do

To all the parents and professionals out there who are more experienced
than me...
Does anyone know what reading /comprehension programs are good follow up
programs to use after completing the SRA direct instruction program
called Language For Learning?
thanks, Susan

We also got Home Depot to cut the whiteboard in half. We now face how to
attach it to the wall!!!!! Our 1918 home has PLASTER walls and we are
hesitant to discover their fragile nature with a large, heavy
board!!!!!!! Any contractor/decorator parents with ideas. It currently
sits atop a small dresser and has yet to fall.
Here's another cheap idea: Office Max sells ($10) dry erase presentation
boards. They areabout 3 1/2' H and 4' W and folded to stand
independantly. It is the style popular now for say 5th graders to make
projects on.
-Laura

Hi everyone. I am brand new to the list. I started DTT/NET with my 3.6
y.o. son this week after eight months of traditional Lovaas. He has
very little receptive language but is starting to develop a fair
echoic. He is not able to TACT as yet. We are working primarily on
manding and fluency of mastered things like follow directions, RFFC and
social questions. My problem is his biggest reinforcer is candy. He
has been manding for it like crazy. When I know he's interested in the
movie or a chip I prompt with the full word but he still says "candy".
I prompt again and if he still say's "candy" I give it to him but I
know he wanted something else. He of course doesn't turn the candy
away. How do I get him to get the appropriate thing I know he wants?
Everything is candy now. He says candy like crazy and if he doesn't get
what he wants he starts to get upset and keeps repeating candy. BTW,
this morning he tantrumed for 30 minutes during therapy. The entire
atmosphere has changed and I don't know if that's throwing him off. We
do very little at the table. Just relaxed on the floor or in the chair
doing the fluency thing. He has no problem staying in the chair for a
long time but he gets mad if he doesn't get that candy relatively quick.
My session sure doesn't look like what I saw in Cincinnati. I'm doing
"errorless teaching" so he's not getting mad about getting it wrong. My
consultant said to start with 2-3 questions then give reinforcer. Then
build up the number of questions and the reinforcer time, i.e. if it's a
video he wants. Not working so far but as I said this is only day three
and he missed eight days of therapy due to sickness running through the
house. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Penny.

Dear folks,
I thank Rhonda for her post about stims and would ask her if she gets any
pertinent info from the school to pass it on!! I personally find stims one of
the most perplexing things about autism.....Our son is doing great in a regular
all day kindergarten and is very verbal....uses pretty great adjectives
etc...has a lot of language...and used to be much more verbally stimmy, not
really much anymore! (some) BUT, we still battle stims. In our case this seems
to be his biggest drawback. Over the years I haven't seen any magic answers to
this. I would say off the cuff that keeping them appropriately engaged seems to
be the best way to battle stims...trying to make other things more
reinforcing(FUN),constantly teaching new skills. It seems like we will get rid
of one stim and another one will pop up. Sometimes it is very subtle. If
anyone has suggestions, please!!
Truly:)

Hello-
I created this mail list because I saw a strong need for support and
information in this area. This mail list serves as a support group for
parents and families advocating for their children to receive more
appropriate services from their school districts. This mail list is also open
to advocates, attorneys and other professionals. Originally the main topic
of this mail list was for families that were seeking funding for Applied
Behavior Analysis. I have since then opened the topic to include all
disabilities and related legal issues. Hopefully, through this list, we can
help to educate each other and produce more successful IEP's that will help
our children to have brighter futures. If you are interested in joining the
We Will Prevail mail list, please go to the following URL:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/We_Will_Prevail
Thank you,
Kim Murphy

Dear Helen and others interested,
This is my first time to post to this list-(I'm not sure this will make
it!)up until now I have been enjoying all of your posts...and learning.
Helen, I have an extremely verbal autistic son. I have THE
Sundberg/Partington book. I think the chapter on advanced intraverbal training
is helpful. We still have to work on RFFC responses, and more complex
intraverbals. The how question is still something we work on....and doesn't
come up all that much naturally compared to other types of questions. My son
also hasn't totally mastered tacting certain things in relation to himself....I
have a headache, stomach ache...that shirt makes me feel itchy etc...
The joy is that you can still keep going to improve things. The book
mentions material from LinguiSystems as being the best source of examples of
intraverbals. I have ordered several things from Super Duper Publishing; and
also frequently visit our teacher's store. We are planning to do Fast Forward
soon. Distar, or now called Language for Learning is a language program that I
am taking my son through now. We still battle stims....
Truly:)

Does anyone have a web address or contact info for the following programs
that Carbone and Mcgreevy spoke about at the Ohio conference?
SRA Distar language for learning
SRA Distar reading mastery
SRA Distar arithmetic
Thanks!
Monina

Our son is not so much a verbal stimmer, but he will gaze around, flap his
arms or play with his hands. We battle this "automatic reinforcement"
problem all the time.....they reinforce themselves with their own bodies
and you have to develop a style of teaching that overcomes that. Very fast
paced teaching helps and making sure you have a strong reinforcer helps
too. The fast paced teaching involves giving your Sd's very close together
and then prompting the correct response until the child can independently
respond in that quick fashion. We do a combination of drills to keep the
pace up. We might start a drill with some motor imitation and echoics,
then do some tacting or receptive id or categories or FFC or mix them all
in one drill where there are 15 pictures on the table. We give no more
than a one or two second delay before we prompt the correct answer. For
responses that require a verbal response, if the child does not respond
after two attempts to prompt, then you ask them to touch the picture and
physically prompt them if needed, then move on to the next Sd. This way
you can get between 20-30 responses a minute.
Lynda

I've been reading the list for several weeks now and am very impressed; however,
I am wondering if NET would be appropriate for a highly verbal 5 year old. She
has no problems requesting and speaks fluently. We do need to work on
pragmatics. She is beginning to initiate questions and statements to peers. I
have not seen a copy of the S/P book but from what I have read on the list, many
of the children have no or low language skills. One interesting thing I read
stated that the lack of language skills often results in more stereotypic
behavior and more self stim. Well, my daughter is very verbal and also
imaginative but the self stim, etc, is still high. Her most recent diagnosis
indicated that her symptoms are more consistent with Asperger's.
Helen

Please add 'CLKELSO@...' to the DTT-NET ONElist
Thanks Laura

Dear lister,
I can't find the website that shows his schedule for conferences. Would you
please post it for me? Thanks.
Mariko

I am new to this group and to this program. I am anxious to implement some
of what I am learning in my daughter's program. I always like to know the
"whys". Could someone explain the reasoning for the speed of presentation.
Have there been some studies that show greater retention with a fast
presentation? I know that the people who work with my child will feel
inadequate in this area, as do I! I would like to give them a good reason to
try and develop these skills. Thanks, Vicky
SignsRusMK@...

Okay, I guess I didn't put much thought into it before I sent my original
post, as I totally skipped pertinent information (like my last name!). We
live and learn! Send a blank video & a self-addressed mailer to Mickey
Ellis, 19214 Oak View Terrace, Houston, TX 77094. As soon as I receive it,
I will send the video.
Yours,
Mickey Ellis

Dear Listers, below are my notes from Dr. Partington's ABLLS workshop. I was
planning on posting bits and pieces when answering parents questions, etc. but I
do not seem to be finding the time to do that. Dr. Partington said he did not
mind participants taping the workshop but did not want it dictated over the
internet. With this in mind, I want to say that the following notes are
strictly from my note taking and are not taken from any tape recorder. The
following is written to the best of my understanding during the workshop.
I highly recommend that any parent OR professional wanting to learn more to
contact Dr. Partington's agency and attend one or more of the many workshops
they have to offer...on both a parent and professional level. Workshops cover
ABLLS, behaviors, specific teaching techniques, etc. There is definitely one to
meet your needs (if not more then one). I do not have their website handy but
it has been post to this list in the past and can also be found on the ONElist
DTT-NET link page.
Please excuse my typo's. I am sure you will find some.
Biggest issue: lack of language skills. Language helps decrease unwanted
behaviors a great deal.
Stars School: 1 to 2 ratio. Opened 9-10 years ago. 24 students. Based on
Skinners Analysis of Language.
How do we measure skills? Which skills do we choose first? What was important
to Dr. Partington in the beginning was education. Project Follow-through was a
program developed to help the disadvantaged people to live for themselves. This
was to follow the Headstart program. PFT was to keep children moving along with
their peers. The models that came out with the best outcomes were Direct
Instruction and Behavioral Analysis. Direct Instruction out of Oregon was
better because they had a detailed curriculum to follow. ABA gives us the "know
how" to teach but we needed help on what to teach (years ago ?? date - during
this study of Project Follow Through). DI had that already, thus provided them
with better outcomes. Many people know how to direct behavior but do not know
what to teach. The ABLLS will help guide instructors through the "what to
teach."
How do you pick things for children to work on? Pediatricians look for
developmental milestones to see if kids are ready to start school.
Developmental milestones are great but when you look at the child and they have
not reached other milestones, it would not be advised to teach colors or
numbers, etc. Children show escape behavior to get out of instruction to get
out of what they do not like. If people would look at other skills a child
needs and teach first, it may not take as long to teach more advanced skills.
Biggest issue we have to look at is to teach the right skills, especially when
highly structured instruction is needed. We do not want children to have to
have highly structured instruction their entire lives. Teaching should result
in the acquisition of generalized skills that allow the learner to learn from
his everyday experiences, not just structured instruction.
When a typical child goes to kindergarten, they come to school with a lot of
skills that allows them to learn from observations, and basic learner skills
that allow them to learn from their everyday experiences. We want them to learn
from peers, neighbors, family, and community. We needed a way to look at
what those basic learner skills are, thus the development of the ABLLS.
Autism: language deficits, social interaction deficits and atypical response to
stimuli, repetitive behavior, etc. As you look at all these issues, you will
see that language is a key to over come the other deficits associated with
autism. Bottom line, no language the child will have difficulty learning
skills.
Basic Learner Skills: (refer to assessment book-there are 15 areas of basic
learning.)
COOPERATION is one of the first skills a child needs to learn. You have to make
friends with the child. They have to want to be with you. We have to build a
reinforcing relationship.
VISUAL PERFORMANCE: to make sense out of stimuli that is available to the
child. We need to have the child pay attention to what we are showing the child
(is it a cat or a dog: furry little animal). Work through descriptives to
understand what you see.
RECEPTIVE SKILLS: ability to understand words of other people.
IMITATION: we learn a lot of skills from observing others behavior. Does not
matter what the imitation is, just that the child can imitate and generalize
imitations into the natural environment.
VERBAL BEHAVIOR: (vocal imitation/echoics/signing-how we communicate with
others):
n Requesting (manding): a child can get something out of what they are
asking (simple to complex information)
n Labeling: label complex social interaction as well as simple: that is a
cup
n Intraverbals: need to make sure a child can ask for labels they know or
they can talk about the items that they know. Important for social skills. (ex.
We can say all kinds of things about pasta. It is a kind of noodle, you eat it,
kinds of sauces you put on it, where to buy it, etc.) While driving down the
street. Child says, "cow". Now we want to make sure they can talk about it.
Where do cows live, what does a cow say, etc. If we do not have this skill,
socialation cannot happen. Must have the ability to talk about these things.
n Spontaneous Vocalitation: we want children to use these skills without
having to tell them they can talk. Not only answer the question when we ask you
"what is it?" We want them to talk about things without us prompting it. Make
sure we are reinforcing it. What good are 200 words is we do not use them? A
child needs to learn that being asked is NOT the only time they can use their
labeling skills. Highest level of skill is their use of language without being
told to do so. Just because you are not working on labeling "water" but the
child says "water" spontaneously, you need to stop what you are doing and
reinforce that spontaneous language.
n Syntax and grammar: looking at how children use the function of
language. Formal aspect is how the child puts the words together (red car vs.
car red) Is it important how the child uses the language?
PLAY AND LEISURE SKILLS. We need to make sure that the child knows what to do
when he is alone.
Appropriate play: Things a child does to entertain him/herself. Appropriate
activities to keep him entertained. Drawing in other kids to bring in these
skills is a wonderful way to teach appropriate play.
SOCIAL INTERACTIONS: How to we act with each other. We do not want to just sit
down and teach children in a teaching environment. We want to make sure these
things occur naturally. The more skills we can teach them the more
opportunities the child will have to enjoy life. How can we get that child to
learn under more naturalistic teaching environments, less structure? How do we
move them on from the one on one teaching experience?
GROUP INSTRUCTION/FOLLOW CLASSROOM INSTRUCTION: does the child know that when I
say "everyone," it means them too? Make sure the child knows the routine that
is expected of him. How do we follow along with a set of instructions?
GENERALIZED RESPONDING: make sure that all these skills we teach are
generalized. You have 30 cards a child learns, then you change the cards to
same but different items and the child does not know those items. Sometimes
children are attending to the wrong stimulus. (A crease in the card instead of
the car on the card.) We need to make sure the child can answer every ones
questions and they are able to use different stimuli to identify the same/like
items.
ACADEMIC, SELF HELP AND MOTOR SKILLS: reading, math, writing, spelling,
dressing, eating, grooming, toileting, gross and fine motor are all included in
a good program. These things are in the ABLLS, but are not a part of the basic
learner skills. Use other assessments to help you fine tune skills a child
needs, do not depend on just the ABLLS. The ABLLS is a tool and should not be
etched in stone. I have to do this first, then this, etc.
CURRICULM ISSUES: must emphasize the development of skills the student
currently needs to learn. We must allow for changes in instruction, as the
learner needs change. We are not going to be able to follow a book to meet all
the needs of every child. This is in contrast to what a typical kindergarten
class is like. We may need to be able to adapt quicker then a reg. kindergarten
class curriculum. If a child learns a skill in November but the teacher is not
planning on addressing that skill within her curriculum until Jan that is too
late for the child. We have to go with what the child needs and when he needs
it.
Multiple pay-offs: teach a child to MAND for reinforcers and you get ATTENDING,
COOPERATION, IMITATION, SOCIALIZATION, AND LANGUAGE. You need to make sure what
you are teaching provides a multiple of pay-offs, not just one specific thing.
If I have something a child wants, I do not need to ask him to "look at me" or
"come to me" because most likely they will do that anyway, just based on the
knowledge that I have what they want.
You need to track a child's progress. Including emerging skills. The ABLLS is a
criterion referenced assessment, curriculum and skills tracking system. What is
your sequence of what you are trying to do? Know what your goal is in the end.
Special features of the ABLLS are that it assesses language skills, a child's
ability to attend to verbal and NV stimuli, assesses generalization and
spontaneity sensitive to motivation of all variables.
There are holes in the ABLLS. I need to look at the child, itself, and then
look at the skills. Look at the patterns the child may have. Then ask
yourselves, is this a skill that I need to worry about. Maybe the child hates
puzzles. Is it necessary to make the child learn puzzles or would it be better
to do something the child likes better. Always look for fun, creative ways to
teach these skills. The ABLLS is a guideline. This gives guidance but we really
need to look at the child.
We have to have good teaching, good common sense, know what is available to
child (environment and teachers). All this should change when a child's needs
the change to progress further. Take a healthy view of the child. Do not
compare to others and do not look at timelines. Enjoy them for whom they are
and celebrate their successes as they come. Strive for the best, but keep the
focus on what they need to do now. And ask yourselves, "Can I help my child
enjoy himself and am I helping me enjoy my child as he learns."
Limitations: ABLLS is not an exhaustive list of skills (476 skills derived from
25 areas of learning). These are arranged in a "somewhat" developmental
sequence. Every child learns differently. You are not going to fill in the
blanks in order for all kids, but it does progressively up.skill B1 most likely
will be easier then B10. But realize that there are many scattered skills for
children with autism. Exception to this would be motor skills. This section
was put in to say which ones do you need to teach. It does not matter the order
a child learns these.
The ABLLS does not provide age norms. It is not standardized. It has been
developed to provide guidelines. These are just skills. Some of these skills
are above a Kindergarten - 5 year old level but is based on where a 5 year old
needs to be. Because much of the ABLLS is language based, many of these skills
may be appropriate to teach an older child who has not reached these language
milestones yet. The ABLLS does not assess disruptive behaviors. That is an
entirely different process. It is not a predictor of how a child is going to do
in life. It is a guide to help you determine what to work on.
WHERE SHOULD TEACHING OCCUR? EVERYWHERE. There is a need for a blend of formal
(structured) teaching sessions and training natural environment. Home, park,
school, etc.
FEATURES OF THE ABLLS (Skill book, page 29 how the ABLLS works.)
For every item: task number, scoring to show level of child's skill. A uniform
way to measure progress. Task name, objective (loose), question (to ask
parent/teacher), and criteria to grade where the child is.
One of the features that are built into the ABLLS is the name of the task. Very
important to how you ask the question. Labels reinforcers vs. common objects.
Takes into account the motivation.
** Many times people have misconceptions regarding a child's understanding of
something. If you can label something, should you be able to talk about it.
But in actuality, these are separate skills. Just because someone can label
something does not mean they can find it in the environment. There are many
different skills in our understanding of language. If a child knows one (how to
label an object) does not necessarily mean he knows the other (to tell you
things about that object). They are taught differently.
ABLLS moves to more complex examples of categories as the numbers increase.
Please read the task name / objective carefully when marking off what a child
knows. On a lot of these the child will have one and it will cross over to
another goal but many times it does not. That is why the ABLLS breaks down
tasks.
Some tasks are markers, not skills. Example: (G7) acquires novel labels
without intensive training. Can the child learn from being told what something
is vs. doing it in a DTT setting.over and over again?
Many goals tell us "something". Do we need to data record everything if the
child is learning it quickly? No. Do complex skills come easier for the child?
THE IMPORTANCE OF CARRIER PHRASES: Do we always use complete sentences when
labeling things? No. Why should we make our children do so? When you see a
cow, do you always say, "Look, there is a cow."? Or do you say, "cow". You may
do both and it is important to have the child be able to do both. (A reasonable
range is about ½ of the time J) Look at the skill and ask yourself, how
important is it? You want a balance.
To break it down for an IEP. Provide task name and objective you want.
Basically that is it. Do not make it too complex. When trying to teach
something a child cannot see is more complex then trying to teach something that
is reinforcing or that the child sees everyday. So focus on what is common to
the child FIRST. (Example, body parts come later. If a child is learning these
skills on his own, go ahead and teach them. But do not hold a child back from
learning other things because he is not labeling something he does not see or
hear daily.)
When using the lists in the back of the book, use what makes sense. Teach
common things first. Do not start at the top and go down. You may want to
teach, "jumping" before "scraping" because it is more common to the child. We
have to make sense of what we are teaching. Do we have to set up a situation to
teach on top or beside or do we teaching in the environment? (Ex. put your
backpack on top of the shelf or do you want to teach put the block on top of the
box.????) You do not always want to do this in isolation. You want to teach it
naturally.
There are many factors that go into teaching. With typically developing
children we do not see each individual piece because they are able to transfer
their understanding. Each goal builds on the previous one. We often see people
teaching labeling of community helpers which contains a lot of abstract
concepts. In order to be able to identify a policeman you need to know some
identifying features of a policeman. (uniform, badge, gun, police car, etc.) So
why teach police man if the child does not have these other things known first.
You have to teach by using a lot of collateral events. You cannot teach a child
the concept of pain but you can teach them to attend to the behavior of others
that may show a person is in pain. (holding stomach, running fever, crying,
etc.) It is very difficult to teach social interaction. To know a person is
having a heated discussion with another person and you should not interrupt is
very difficult to teach but you can teach a child to look for and pay attention
to a lot of subtle details. You cannot just jump in and expect a child to know
not to interrupt.
When a child shows high motivation for something, go with it and teach it
because he is interested, but realize that you need to go back and teach those
things he is not interested in too. If he loves letters and numbers at age 2,
use it to teach what he is not motivated to learn (ex. Teach "apple" using
letters and match it to the apple)
PRACTICE: Filling out an ABLLS:
Looking at the ABLLS for patterns to see where your focus should be. This is
designed to be easy for you. Updating and scoring. Do so on a yearly basis for
school. Parents may look at it more often but do not become obsessed with it.
Do not live with the feeling you have to mark out blocks daily. Maybe every 6
months to a year fill it in.
When a child has a skill known, do not attend to it anymore. Focus on the ones
that the child has lower scores on. It is also better to underestimate a child's
skills instead of overestimate and the child actually not have it. This is when
we usually see that a child does not retain the information. Once it is really
learned, it usually stays. (and you should be using the information within the
environment, not just in a structured setting.) For the most part, it could be
the behavior of the child that causes a child to not give the correct answers.
So make sure you focus on the reason the child is not getting it, not that the
child just does not have it.
KEY TO GOOD TEACHING/LEARNING: capture the motivation of the child and keep
moving. If you are not catching the motivation, re-look at your teaching
techniques. Numbers of skills mastered is not set in stone. 50 or 45, does it
really matter? The ABLLS gives you easy guidelines to follow for evaluation
purposes. Do not live by it in stone. Be reasonable in life.
TEACH REINFORCERS FIRST: It will be more interesting to the child to learn
these first. It is not important to teach table and chair, first. Develop the
learning interest by teaching reinforcing items first (tact items that a child
has learned to mand for. -popcorn, pizza, trains)
ABLLS shows you the progress a child is making right away. As you get further
up the ABLLS it will take longer for the child to gain the skill. (most likely).
It is best for the same person to fill in the ABLLS. Fill out what you know
the child can and cannot do. Then, go back to the child and test out (probe)
what you are unsure of. If you are unsure or the child can sometimes or
sometimes not do the skill, then give the child the lower score, until the skill
is strong and he can exhibit it all the time. It is better to underscore then
over-score, and the child actually not have the skill.
TYPICAL IEP PROBLEMS:
n Lack of emphasis on Language and Basic Learner Skills
n Failure to prioritize objectives.
n Non-measurable objectives
n Failure to write objectives prior to the IEP meeting.
GOAL OF THE IEP should be emphasis of skills that will eventually allow student
to learn without us.
1.. Extend existing skills
2.. Develop new skills
3.. Generalize.
Number of objectives an IEP should have is between 20-30 objectives. Too few-
will not address enough skills. Too many - reduces time to work on critical
skills and will delay acquisition of them. You want to leave time for
incidental teaching and generalization and always add new ones when others are
mastered.
Guidelines for content of IEP. Each child is different and requires a unique
set of objectives. Most objectives and teaching time should be based on basic
learning skills and language skills first. Cooperation and reinforcers-usually
don't need a specific objective - if you have good teaching these things should
come naturally. May include an objective to thin the schedule of reinforcement
as the child acquires skills.
VISUAL PERFORMANCE: 1-3 objectives, often an area of strength, can facilitate -
cooperation, task completion, and attention to complex stimuli. This works on
the area of independent play also.
RECEPTIVE LANGUAGE: usually one or more objectives. Follow simple directions.
Discriminations: simple, complex, RFFC. **Specify total number child will know
rather than increase by X amount. (ex. Instead of saying "will learn 20 new
labels" say "will have 75 known labels"). This gives you specific goals. You
want a total number so you can keep track of what the child continues to know.
MOTOR IMITATION: include an objective unless has well-developed and
well-generalized skill. Gross motor, fine motor, speed, sequence, head and
mouth. May put imitation in social or play skills section. Speed/sequence
should also be included in imitation. Do what I do. Pattern what you are
doing. Make it fun. This can go under the social or play skills.
VOCAL IMITATION: Usually appropriate if the chi